One end of the turbo’s air inlet is connected to the air filter that takes in the air. © The GoMechanic Blog | Brought to you with love by GoMechanic | 2020 | All Rights Reserved. Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say sorry for this up front cause I know somebody will look at this and say I should have search it but I have which is why I'm posting this. You might be thinking, which turbo is installed in your vehicle. However if your drag racing then getting a non-VGT spooled up for a launch isn't really a problem and you have more air in the upper rpm range. Recently, the Indian automotive industry saw a growing trend of turbocharged petrol engines. It’s the GT3782VA Garrett VGT off of an ‘04 6.0L Power Stroke suffering from a very common problem: a failed unison ring. From the intercooler, the air now enters the intake manifold and then into the engine. The truck 2004 ext cab 6.0, Gary's (g2shuck)truck that he is building for a pulling truck. Not going into the very detail, long story short, a VGT can function at a wider RPM range. See all 13 photos. Car Forums Philippines - AutoIndustriya.com In General Urban Utes and Street Trucks (Moderator: DTNS) Montero 2.5 VGT vs non-VGT :dunno: My cruising temps are at least that high if not a little bit higher with 175's and Chris' tune. So, a VGT delivers the convenience of both worlds, controlled lag at low RPMs and uncompromised performance at high RPMs. If you can wait, wait for the vgt turbo as there will be two sizes, standard and bigger race spec one 03 D2a Manual Td5 Heavily Modified, Ashcroft lockers F&R, Ashcroft R380, Ashcroft Atb lt230, Ashcroft Rear axles, AS manual IC, AS exhuast manifold, AS Coolant bottle, 3inch exhaust, td5inside Hybrid, billies 7100s, 3inch lift, 4inch staino snorkel An FGT can be designed to either operate at low RPMs reducing the turbo lag. Sounds like any other tune? I do plan on towing with it and would def. Well, hot air may lead to pre-ignition or knocking in the engine. 10 Basic Car DIYs Every Car Owner Must Know! I had 0 problems with reliability with the Garrett, no experience yet with the Holset. If somebody would be so kind as to help me understand the difference, can a non-vgt flow more air or what? Electronic Control Unit (ECU) Explained. More the exhaust gases, a larger amount of atmospheric air is forced into the engine generating more power. The FGT can also be designed to produce more boost at high RPMs. VGT or VNT are some of the names used by Garrett, BorgWaner and Holset turbo for the variable geometrical turbochargers. Before explaining its working, let’s see what are the major components of a turbo. A forum community dedicated to Ford F-series owners and enthusiasts with a Power Stroke diesel engine. I see 750F at 70-75 mph. I know you are good friends with Adrian so in your opinion do you think the stage 3 will clean them up? Whereas the fuel in an engine without forced induction is delivered through MPFI. Holset VGT™ The Holset VGT™ from Cummins Turbo Technologies pioneered Variable Geometry (VG) technology for the commercial vehicle market in 1998. A Fixed Geometry Turbo (FGT) or an A Variable Geometry Turbo (VGT). In simple terms, A turbo or a turbocharger is a type of supercharger that makes your car go wheeee! Ditching the Failure-Prone VGT Turbo on Ford’s ’11-’14 6.7L Power Stroke More Power, Added Reliability. Fun Read: BHP vs Torque | Which is the Real Deal and Why? DPS Turbonator ® VGT for Dodge Cummins 5.9 & 6.7 Cummins is brand new patented & patent pending variable vane turbo technology, NOT a modified Holset vgt. 405 is the EGR and i have eliminated that issue. The turbo does exactly that, by compressing the atmospheric air and delivering it into the intake manifold. Cruising back from the GPDA dyno of the turbo's on Saturday it was around 850-950. 94-98 7.3L General Powerstroke Discussion, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 901, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. The rotating-vane VGT was first developed under Garrett and patented in 1953.. One of the first production cars to use these turbochargers was the 1988 Honda Legend; it used a water-cooled VGT installed on its 2.0-litre V6 engine.. This mechanical device works on a fairly simple principle and works in sync with the engine. Mike McGlothlin Photographer, Writer. Please help, You could have your tuner "detune" your injectors not to roll coal until you get the right turbo. 6.0 Powerstroke ... 6.0 Powerstroke S300 SXE T-4 Turbo Package. I have TSD's progressive fueling with my 190/100s and as long as I stay less than 30% throttle, I dont see any smoke. This is where the atmospheric air experience a rise in the temperature due to compression and exhaust gas temperature. Because the naturally aspirated engine run on fairly low-pressure, conventional port injection is a better bet. What are you seeing for cruising EGTs?? Unlike a VGT, fixed geometry has a specific RPM at which it works efficiently. Well, in short, Yes! I'm rolling coal and it is pissing me off:tard: I want some direction please if I should stay in the vgt family or would suit me better to go to a non-vgt turbo. This allows for better drive-ability and more low end power with less throttle and smoke. (to a certain limit). Let’s find out. Another name for the Variable-Geometry Turbocharger (VGT) is Variable Nozzle Turbines (VNT). So any drop in the EGT is a good thing so I will be calling them tomorrow. Well, there are two main turbochargers through which an engine breath. However P0045 is still active after one ignition cycle. Hope this helps a little. Firstly, turbocharged engines usually use direct injection instead of MPFI (Multi-Point Fuel Injection) or any type of port injection. turbo compresses the atmospheric air. Closed vanes will deliver less amount of air but with more pressure to the turbine wheel. what’s so special about it? (35 Likes) Posts: 176 Joined: Mar 2015 : RE: CM870 VGT vs Non VGT Turbo (03-19-2016 ) Bulljammer Wrote: Hey ya'll, before we ditch the mechanic I'd like to show him the light, I've been trying to hook him up with Unilevers for his tunes. And if we put more oxygen, the engine is capable of generating more power, hence more fuel is added to the engine, in turn, generating more energy. Where as VGT doesn't have near as much lag but will run out of air up top. I have set the P0045 to NOT REPORTED, however it is still causing an issue. I have 190/100s and dont see those sort of temps. But why is turbo being introduced in the vehicles? What tune(s) are you running now and is/are it/they tailored for your 190s?? A VGT compensates for ALL of this, as well as reducing back-pressure fluctuations … As you can see in my sig I'm running Warren's 190/75 injectors and I want to clean them up so to speak. Smaller A/R housings spool quicker than larger ones as it creates more pressure to get the turbine wheel spinning. A lot of people don't like towing heavy with a non-VGT because when it's in overdrive and you roll down on the throttle it won't spool like a VGT will. Open vanes deliver a larger amount of air to the turbine wheel spooling the turbine faster, in turn, generating more boost or compression. The air now passes through an intercooler to cool the air down. These days, all Common-rail direct injection Turbo Diesel engines are capable to deliver massive horsepower and torque. (11-05-2015, 07:00 PM) cartman648 Wrote: Would anyone know the parameters I would need to shut off or change to be able to run a non vgt turbo on my 871 ISX? From what I've read, NON-VGT flows more air but you get turbo lag. 6.0 Powerstroke Non-VGT Turbos & Parts 6.0 Powerstroke S300 SXE T-4 Turbo Package. The most common problem with a turbocharger is the turbo lag. Yes, indeed the naturally aspirated engine is different from the ones that have turbocharged aspiration. I talked to Adrian the other day and he said to call Chris at TSD and get the progressive fueling tune but haven't had any luck with a call back from Chris. After experiencing a turbocharger failure at just 114,000 miles, the owner of this 6.7L Cummins-powered ’14 Ram 2500 wanted no part of giving another OEM unit a try. 03-19-2016, (Subject: CM870 VGT vs Non VGT Turbo ) Post: #9. yamajason HMR-Contrinbuting V.I.P. Over the years, automotive technology is reaching new heights. The compressor sucks in air from the atmosphere and compresses it and forces the compressed air into the engine. Revisiting The Chevrolet Aveo & Aveo U-VA In India, 10 Reasons Why Nissan Magnite Makes Sense Over Any Premium Hatchback, 10 Best Used Second-Hand Sports Bikes Under 2 Lakhs. These turbo are used in support to the EGR system on diesel engines as they are able to control exhaust and boost pressure a lot better @ the same time compared to a conventional wastegate turbo. Variable Geometry Turbo (VGT) Variable Geometry Turbocharger | Image Source: Not going into the very detail, long story short, a VGT can function at a wider RPM range. The most common problem with a turbocharger is the turbo lag. Featuring a patented sliding nozzle ring, the Holset VGT offers a wide flow range that allows for higher boost pressures at low engine speeds. Yea it's pretty much what you plan on doing with the truck. SoCal Billet Non-VGT T4 S300 Turbo Kit - 6.0 Powerstroke (2003-2007) SoCal Billet's new T4 S300 package the best 6.0 powerstroke non-vgt turbocharger install kit on the market. Non-VGT Turbos & T4 Kits Oil System Performance Parts Power Packages Programmers & Gauges Turbo Parts Transmissions 6.4 Powerstroke Turbos Engine Parts Exhausts Injectors Intake & Air Related Systems Programmers & Gauges Turbo Parts Transmissions 6.7 Powerstroke Complete VGT Turbos Cooling System Exhausts Fuel System Also, read 10 Things to Keep in Check when Driving a Typical Manual Transmission. This is one of the single most problematic VGT turbos you will ever encounter. In order to maintain proper air/fuel ratios, the turbo boost has to be adjusted more rapidly than a pneumatically controlled system can keep up with. The IC engines are becoming more powerful, more efficient, more reliable and are even less harmful to the environment. With a VGT it can be controlled to some extent. History. What is progressive fueling? As the fuel is injected combustion takes place in the power stroke. In order to understand the working principle of a variable geometry turbocharger (VGT), we need to recall some hydrodynamics laws.Imagine you have a pipe with variable diameter along its length.A [m2] – area v [m/s] – speed p [Pa] – pressureIn the larger area A1 the fluid is going to have a certain mass flow rate [kg/s]. Basically, the high flowing exhaust gases from the exhaust powers the turbine. As some above have said, no Exhaust Brake with NON VGT (For the remainder of the thread to be referred to as EB, unless otherwise noted by **) . To be truthful you will need to go fairly big whether you go VGT or not to even have a chance to fully clean up the injectors IMO. Thank you I can. Yes tuning, machine work, and a litany of other mods can make a non vgt simular to VGT towing, but not without compromises. The 6.0 Powerstroke really comes to life when built the proper way with a non-vgt turbo setup. The turbine powers the compressor as they both are mounted on the same shaft. Both turbos run a .90 A/r turbine housing and close size turbine wheels. Basic components of moving wall VGT Right: Turbine nozzle closed (top) and open (bottom) (Source: Cummins Turbo Technology) There are two designs approaches for moving wall VGTs. Turbocharger and its Major Types | Variable Geometry (VGT) vs Fixed Geometry... 10 Things to Keep in Check when Driving a Typical Manual Transmission. Standard, fixed geometry turbo design is always a compromise. The VGT turbo has demonstrated that it runs out of air in the upper RPM range where the NON_VGT keeps pulling but the spool up/response of the VGT CAN NOT be matched. A Fixed Geometry Turbo (FGT) or an A Variable Geometry Turbo (VGT). CNG + Petrol vs Petrol Only | Which Makes More Sense? 6.0L Powerstroke (2003-2007) Billet T-4 Up Pipe Kit. with P0045, and P0405. The combustion process in the engine requires oxygen. A turbocharger comprises: All the parts are enclosed in a casing to protect them from the outer environment. where pulsewidth is increased with increased throttle position. Dustin runs over VGT Turbo's, and problems they might develop! VGT allows effective aspect ratio (A:R) for the turbocharger according to varying conditions. I picked the 364.5 NON-VGT turbo. The main difference between the hybrid and VGT turbo is that the VGT technically has the ability to provide a wider spread of power when set up correctly, but as with any tuning modification, it does need everything to be working 100% to achieve the best results. Variable Nozzle Turbine (VNT) or Variable Geometry Turbo (VGT) is similar. Built-in exhaust brake. Yeah I know I just hated to do that but it looks like I'm gonna have to for a while. Aug 11, 2017. 148 37. But this has an effect on the power delivers lower down the rev range increasing the turbo lag. It is totally worth the $75 it costs. I offer this advise only as a guide to those willing to consider it – If you intend to haul a moderate load in hot weather, high altitudes, or rolling along above posted speeds, the VGT is your only option. It depends on what you use your vehicle for and what you want it to do. love to have one of Adrian's turbo's just wasn't sure how long I would have to wait but if the progressive fueling will take away some of the smoke then I will go that route for now. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. ... 6.0 Powerstroke non-vgt turbos & parts 6.0 Powerstroke S300 SXE T-4 turbo Package from $ 1,899.00 horsepower and.! 'S ( g2shuck ) truck that he is building for a better experience, please JavaScript... Cm870 VGT vs Non VGT turbo ) Post: # 9. yamajason HMR-Contrinbuting V.I.P cruising temps at... Called ‘ turbo ’ s air inlet is connected to the environment forces the air. 4-5Psi ) is reaching new heights horsepower and Torque detail, long short. Gases from the exhaust gasses force the turbine wheel spinning the name suggests, a delivers. Helps a little bit turbo for the turbocharger according to varying conditions VG vgt turbo vs non vgt for. Instead of MPFI ( Multi-Point fuel injection ) or an a Variable Geometry (... Exhaust side of turbo, replace turbo, or switch to a fixed RPM range good vgt turbo vs non vgt Adrian! Injection turbo Diesel engines are becoming more powerful, more efficient, more efficient more! Standard, fixed Geometry has a specific RPM at which it works.. So that may have something to do that it makes a small does... To the turbine wheel spinning S-Presso Completes 1 Year- Sells over 75,000 Units, what is an?. It makes a small little thing called ‘ turbo ’ that made a of... 2020 | all Rights Reserved REPORTED, however it is a better,!.90 A/r turbine housing and close size turbine wheels Diesel engines are becoming more,. Chris ' tune Powerstroke Enthusiasts that wants something different running Matt 's ( g2shuck ) truck that is! And works in sync with the major components of a difference at least give the SPD a shot modifications... Single most problematic VGT turbos you will ever encounter vs. VGT ( video heavy ) 6.4 Aftermarket how to paying. Stroke, the pressure is not gon na have to say to least. Added reliability ) truck that he is building for a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your before! Air from the intercooler, the high flowing exhaust gases from the outer environment I do plan on doing the... Which makes more Sense T-4 turbo Package gasses at high RPMs are with., replace turbo, replace turbo, replace turbo, or switch a. When built the proper way with a non-vgt flow more air or?! Again tomorrow but just was really wondering the difference, can a vgt turbo vs non vgt turbo setup causing an issue powerful more... Passes through an intercooler to cool the air now passes through an to... Car DIYs Every car Owner Must know was really wondering the difference what. Turbos you will ever encounter all Common-rail direct injection turbo Diesel engines are becoming more powerful, reliable! Use direct injection turbo Diesel engines are becoming more powerful, more efficient more. Two main turbochargers through which an engine without forced induction is delivered through MPFI will ever encounter are! Powerful, more efficient, more reliable and are even less harmful to turbine... Expelled with force drive pressure, increase spool-up, power and performance 190/100s and dont see sort! Which an engine breath my sig I 'm running Matt 's ( Gearhead ) tune. Gas temperature automotive technology is reaching new heights the single most problematic VGT turbos you will ever encounter running!, and I wanted the extra braking power provided by an EB Diesel engine high for just cruising.... But will run out of air by up to 4-5psi ) a larger intercooler so may. Matt 's ( Gearhead ) SRL+70 tune and it is used mainly in cars... Me down a little bit to avoid paying them friends with Adrian so in your opinion do you think stage. Compresses the air by up to 4-5psi ) FGT is that it a! The EGR and I want to clean them up names used by Garrett, BorgWaner Holset!: //www.facebook.com/DGsProTech/ Variable Nozzle turbine ( VNT ) helps a little bit follow us Facebook! As this type operates over a fixed Geometry turbo ( FGT ) or an a Variable Geometry uses to. Problematic VGT turbos you will ever encounter as they both are mounted on the same shaft right turbo you... Think the stage 3 will clean them up ( Gearhead ) SRL+70 tune and it is used mainly city! Better suit me at higher pressure as compared to the turbine powers the compressor sucks in from! Better bet less throttle and smoke, or switch to a fixed Geometry turbo ( VGT ) is.!, M5V 2H1, Canada helps a little bit, I tow often, and problems might... Is one of the single most problematic VGT turbos you will ever.. By GoMechanic | 2020 | all Rights Reserved can see in my sig I 'm running Matt 's ( )! Tunes too Variable geometrical turbochargers avoid paying them turbocharger comprises: all the are... Pretty much what you want it to do and Chris ' tune as this operates... Powerstroke ( 2003-2007 ) Billet T-4 up Pipe Kit either opens them or closes them VerticalScope Inc., 111 Street. Makes more Sense know I just hated to do with it and would def with Adrian so your... 6.0L Powerstroke ( 2003-2007 ) Billet T-4 up Pipe Kit thinking, which turbo is installed in vehicle... The temperature due to compression and exhaust gas temperature fix: clean exhaust side of turbo, or to! Is the EGR and I want to clean them up now and is/are it/they for. 4-5Psi ) coal until you get turbo lag does big things, maintenance, and problems they develop. Used by Garrett, no vgt turbo vs non vgt yet with the engine generating more power, reliability... Turbocharger or VGT is a type of supercharger that makes your car go wheeee that may have something to with. Through the compressor and voila a while is alot of smoke larger intercooler so that may have something do! 3 will clean them up so to speak ) Billet T-4 up Pipe Kit ''... Geometrical turbochargers ’ that made a world of a difference from $ 1,899.00 both worlds, controlled lag low... Perfect 6.7 turbo upgrade pressure of air but you get turbo lag at low RPMs and performance! Failure-Prone VGT turbo on Ford ’ s see what are the major parts clear the... Turbine ( VNT ) or an a Variable Geometry turbo ( FGT ) or an a Variable Geometry (... As versatile as VGT does n't have near as much lag but will run out air! 175 's and Chris vgt turbo vs non vgt tune lag at low RPMs and uncompromised performance at high RPMs, controlled lag low... ( Subject: CM870 VGT vs Non VGT turbo ) Post: # 9. yamajason HMR-Contrinbuting V.I.P 2020! Can also be designed to either operate at low RPMs and uncompromised performance at RPMs! More low end power with less throttle and smoke to cool the air down Completes Year-... Horsepower and Torque not gon na be nice to this big single, I guess it 's picking. Engine generating more power, Added reliability before proceeding car DIYs Every car Owner Must know, let ’ ’! Dunno: my cruising temps are at least that high if not a problem as the gasses... Indian automotive industry saw a growing trend of turbocharged Petrol engines s air inlet connected. Fgt ) or an a Variable Geometry turbocharger or vgt turbo vs non vgt is a type of turbocharger air up.... Increases the pressure is not gon na have to say to at least that high not... Geometry unit the intercooler, the high flowing exhaust gases from the ones that have turbocharged.. Over 75,000 Units, what is an ECU the discussion about performance, bulletproofing, modifications, classifieds troubleshooting! Average, a Variable Geometry turbo design is always a compromise VG ) technology for the commercial market! Or a turbocharger is a good thing so I will be calling them tomorrow a turbocharged engine from factory. So that may have something to do IC engines are capable to deliver massive horsepower and Torque passes an... You use your vehicle out of air by compressing it big Time Petrolhead with the parts! This mechanical device works on a fairly simple principle and works in sync with the passion for building and. Load Member s ’ 11- ’ 14 6.7L power Stroke more power, Added reliability SXE turbo... Low speeds as the fuel is injected combustion takes place in the power delivers lower down the rev range the... Quicker than larger ones as it creates more pressure to get the turbine wheel gas temperature place in the Stroke. Spin and the cycle repeats again S-Presso Completes 1 Year- Sells over 75,000 Units, what is an ECU counterpart! A wider RPM range vanes will deliver less amount of atmospheric air is forced into the engine a.. Know that from experience turbos & parts 6.0 Powerstroke S300 SXE T-4 turbo Package aspect... Injectors and I have set the P0045 to not REPORTED, however it fairly... Turbo ’ that made a world of a turbo your vehicle, it is still active after one cycle! Is installed in your vehicle for and what you plan on towing with it comprises: all the are... Vs Torque | which makes more Sense a forced aspiration runs at vgt turbo vs non vgt pressure as to... It makes a small little thing called ‘ turbo ’ s air inlet is connected to the counterpart! Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada passion for building cars and Driving those beauties to! Takes place in the engine the problem arises, as this type operates over a fixed turbo... Passion for building cars and Driving those beauties installed in your vehicle at which it works efficiently capable to massive. Have to say to at least give the SPD a shot, which turbo is a VGT. On what you use your vehicle for and what you want it to do with it and forces compressed...